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  #1  
Old 10-06-2006, 05:38 PM
Chris Barnes Chris Barnes is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 385
Default A really ignorant question about baseball

Paul Danaher <paul.danaher@watwinc.com> wrote:
Quote:
Okay, well - the bowler in cricket is essentially throwing the ball too - no stick or raquet or basket (pelota) involved. It's considered poor form to aim directly at the batsman ("bodyline bowling"). I find it interesting that baseball and cricket have similar top speeds.


Since cricket is using the same mechanics, I would say that similar speeds
would be expected.

Quote:
But although this is interesting - thanks for the physics hint - what I was actually thinking about was the hitter's point of view. A person receiving service in tennis is facing something moving at well over 100 mph with enough spin to make the ball go elliptical in the air, a batsman is facing a ball travelling at around 100 mph and coming off the ground in a way which can be unpredictable. Is the problem in baseball the fact that the bat is *round*, which seriously reduces the optimal striking surface?


Having a round bat vs. a flat racket certainly makes a difference.

The comparative weights of the objects also come into play. A baseball is
significantly heavier (and denser) than a tennisball/racketball. This
means that it's energy when it reaches the batter is higher given the same
velocities. Which is why bats break in baseball, but it's rare to break a
tennis racket (although I guess broken strings count).

That means the bat needs to be dense enough to not shatter, but light
enough that the batter can generate enough of their own velocity in the
swing. This means that the "sweet spot" on a bat is really very small
(maybe 1.5" long x .33" high).

Also, baseball pitchers also put spin on the ball which gives it too an
eliptical orbit (think curveball, slider, sinker, etc). Plus as baseball
has raised threads (something missing from tennisball/racketball) which
gives the air pressure in flight a little something extra to exert "push"
on during that spin.


These things (plus a couple of others I think I'm leaving out) is why it
is often said that "hitting a homerun is the hardest thing to do in
sports".


PS: the physics of athletics, especially baseball, is a minor facination
to me. ;-)

PSS: anyone else here every read Bill James' _Historical Baseball
Abstract_?

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Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes

You always have freedom of choice, but you never have freedom of
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  #2  
Old 10-06-2006, 07:11 PM
Paul Danaher Paul Danaher is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 284
Default A really ignorant question about baseball

Wooly Baa Lamb wrote:
Quote:
Paul Danaher <paul.danaher@watwinc.com> wrote:
Quote:
Okay, well - the bowler in cricket is essentially throwing the ball too - no stick or raquet or basket (pelota) involved. It's considered poor form to aim directly at the batsman ("bodyline bowling"). I find it interesting that baseball and cricket have similar top speeds.
Since cricket is using the same mechanics, I would say that similar speeds would be expected.


Seems reasonable.
Quote:
But although this is interesting - thanks for the physics hint - what I was actually thinking about was the hitter's point of view. A person receiving service in tennis is facing something moving at well over 100 mph with enough spin to make the ball go elliptical in the air, a batsman is facing a ball travelling at around 100 mph and coming off the ground in a way which can be unpredictable. Is the problem in baseball the fact that the bat is *round*, which seriously reduces the optimal striking surface? Having a round bat vs. a flat racket certainly makes a difference. The comparative weights of the objects also come into play. A baseball is significantly heavier (and denser) than a tennisball/racketball. This means that it's energy when it reaches the batter is higher given the same velocities. Which is why bats break in baseball, but it's rare to break a tennis racket (although I guess broken strings count).


I frankly don't know about squash balls - they're significantly smaller, but
then they have a tremendous amount of elastic energy stored in there too,
like golf balls. This is going to be a consideration with cricket balls and
baseballs as well. Modern tennis raquets are very different from the stuff I
grew up with!!
Quote:
That means the bat needs to be dense enough to not shatter, but light enough that the batter can generate enough of their own velocity in the swing. This means that the "sweet spot" on a bat is really very small (maybe 1.5" long x .33" high). Also, baseball pitchers also put spin on the ball which gives it too an eliptical orbit (think curveball, slider, sinker, etc). Plus as baseball has raised threads (something missing from tennisball/racketball) which gives the air pressure in flight a little something extra to exert "push" on during that spin.


A cricket ball has a raised thread, and bowlers use all kinds of illegal
methods to scuff it and add to the spin factor. Does a pitcher get to put
significant spin on a fast ball?
Quote:
These things (plus a couple of others I think I'm leaving out) is why it is often said that "hitting a homerun is the hardest thing to do in sports". PS: the physics of athletics, especially baseball, is a minor facination to me. ;-) PSS: anyone else here every read Bill James' _Historical Baseball Abstract_?


You might enjoy http://www.oceansiderevolution.com/EINSTEIN.HTM and/or
http://www.soccerballworld.com/Physics.htm


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  #3  
Old 10-06-2006, 10:11 PM
Chris Barnes Chris Barnes is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 385
Default A really ignorant question about baseball

Paul Danaher <paul.danaher@watwinc.com> wrote:
Quote:
A cricket ball has a raised thread, and bowlers use all kinds of illegal methods to scuff it and add to the spin factor. Does a pitcher get to put significant spin on a fast ball?


Yes, but not as much as a curve ball. The better pitchers get more spin
on their fast ball without sacrificing velocity. Their pitches are said
to be "live". In fact, more movement is generally always preferred over
an additional 1-2 mph ... a big league hitter will eventually get their
timing down on a 100mph fastball. If it doesn't have some movement to it,
those are the pitches that turn into majestic home runs.
Quote:
PSS: anyone else here every read Bill James' _Historical Baseball Abstract_? You might enjoy http://www.oceansiderevolution.com/EINSTEIN.HTM and/or http://www.soccerballworld.com/Physics.htm


Oh great... now my weekend will be taken up.


--

+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Chris Barnes AOL IM: CNBarnes
chris@txbarnes.com Yahoo IM: chrisnbarnes

You always have freedom of choice, but you never have freedom of
consequence.


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  #4  
Old 10-06-2006, 10:55 PM
Paul Danaher Paul Danaher is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 284
Default A really ignorant question about baseball

Wooly Baa Lamb wrote:
Quote:
Paul Danaher <paul.danaher@watwinc.com> wrote:
Quote:
A cricket ball has a raised thread, and bowlers use all kinds of illegal methods to scuff it and add to the spin factor. Does a pitcher get to put significant spin on a fast ball?
Yes, but not as much as a curve ball. The better pitchers get more spin on their fast ball without sacrificing velocity. Their pitches are said to be "live". In fact, more movement is generally always preferred over an additional 1-2 mph ... a big league hitter will eventually get their timing down on a 100mph fastball. If it doesn't have some movement to it, those are the pitches that turn into majestic home runs.


That makes sense. Cricket adds the variables of the pitch around the wicket,
rather like golf in some respects.
Quote:
PSS: anyone else here every read Bill James' _Historical Baseball Abstract_? You might enjoy http://www.oceansiderevolution.com/EINSTEIN.HTM and/or http://www.soccerballworld.com/Physics.htm Oh great... now my weekend will be taken up.


As Kanga's Evil Twin said in another thread - "My work here is done!"


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